Bruce Poh: Championing the cause of non-degree holders

The prevalent mindset in Singapore is that technical jobs are inferior to managerial positions. A new national report - Applied Study in Polytechnics and ITE Review, or ASPIRE - hopes to change this, with recommendations on how to boost the career prospects of graduates from polytechnics and the three colleges of the Institute of Technical Education (ITE). Mr Bruce Poh, 59, the ITE's chief executive, was on the committee that produced the report, with input from employers, students and parents. Mr Poh, who holds a degree in electronics engineering, tells Charissa Yong of the uphill task in coaxing Singaporeans to be less obsessive about a degree, how Singapore is starting to emulate Germany and Switzerland where master craftsmen are celebrated, and whether Singapore will ever choose an ITE graduate as prime minister.
The Straits Times, 6 Sep 2014

As a proportion, degree holders form the biggest pool of workers retrenched since 2011, compared to all other groups in terms of qualifications. Was this the reason for the ASPIRE project?

ASPIRE was undertaken because more and more people want to get a degree as they think it is the only road to success. But an economy needs all types of manpower.

But if you look at places such as South Korea and Taiwan, about 80 to 90 per cent of their people respectively have a degree. You can find taxi drivers and receptionists with degrees. Most would have been better off studying for a vocational certificate. We don't want a situation where many degree holders are under-employed or unemployed. We think that's not the right path to take.

In Singapore, some MPs have told me that at their Meet-the- People Sessions, many asking for jobs are usually degree holders. They hardly get an ITE or poly graduate asking for jobs. That's the value of having skills.

I must, however, stress that for certain professions, such as a lawyer, doctor or architect, a degree is a must. But there are professionals, managers and executives who could be working in areas where there's nothing unique about their degrees.


Some on social media say ITE students feel inferior in Singapore and blame this inferiority complex for the bad things some of them do, such as vandalism or shoplifting. What is your response to the netizens?

When students come to ITE, one of the first things we do is try to give them leadership positions and send them on overseas attachments, such as student exchanges, industrial attachments and community service projects.

We also find out their talents and build their self-confidence.

Moreover, in every cohort, there will be positive as well as negative role models. You have that among university students, poly students, ITE students. But the majority are good.

Sometimes, society treats ITE students unfairly. We had an incident when a resident near College West phoned and said: "How come there are so many ITE students at my block of flats?" He thought having ITE students meant something was wrong.

We asked our guidance officers to go and talk to the students and they found that the students actually lived in the block. Their friends were visiting. We told the caller the students were his neighbours. He was very embarrassed.


At the National Day Rally, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong urged Singaporeans not to go on a paper chase, especially for degrees that are not relevant to their jobs. Many Singaporeans seem unconvinced by his argument that the work-and-study approach can be an alternative path to career success. Why?

People here tend to revere academic qualifications. Many parents view a degree as the ticket to a good career and success.

And if you ask ITE students what they want to do after their studies, you will inevitably get answers like: "I want to get a diploma. And after a diploma, I want to get a degree." That kind of thinking is very, very ingrained.

It will take some time for people to change their mindset.







Why do Singaporeans revere a degree so intensely?

In imperial China, the mandarins, who were scholars, were highly revered. This is a prestigious position given to those who had distinguished themselves from the rest through extremely rigorous imperial examinations. So we tend to want to take that route.


What needs to be done to change people's mind about the work-and-study approach?

We need to have more education and career guidance officers from secondary school upwards to make students and their parents more aware of the many different career options and ways to study while working.

Over time, the students will not only say they want to be a doctor, a lawyer or an accountant.

They will also say, "Hey, I'm good in hair styling, fashion design, or such technical work as precision controlling of machines, marine and offshore engineering, or in IT-related areas.

"There's a place for me in ITE or poly, and I can join this company and have a good career and good pay."

To help guide parents, invite them to talks at schools given by professionals from companies, so they will become aware and think: "Hey, this isn't a bad industry. I don't mind my kid studying in this field and entering the industry."

Meanwhile, at the ITE, we are going to offer place-and-train programmes for our students to get technical diplomas after their Nitec and higher Nitec certificates. It will be done in partnership with other institutions or industries.

The programmes will let students work and study at the same time for their technical diplomas.


What more can be done?

The media can help by reporting more cases of people rising to the top with just an ITE certificate.

Companies and the Government too must show that if you're skilled and perform well, you will rise through the ranks and there is no glass ceiling.

Already, many in the private sector place greater importance on performance than a degree.

Similarly, the Government said last week that non-degree holders who perform well will be promoted faster. It is also studying merging the career tracks of graduates and non-graduates, so that everyone can progress on the same track.

The private sector must also accord the recognition and pay well for the deep skills of their employees. Both the public and private sectors can also intensify and further publicise their efforts.


How do countries such as Germany and Switzerland celebrate their skilled workers?

If you are a master craftsman in Germany, you're very well respected and paid.

At Mercedes-Benz in Germany, its master craftsmen earn good salaries, sometimes more than their supervisors. To open a bakery in Germany, you must be a meister, its title for master craftsman. So even in their legislation, they accord master craftsmen respect. The average monthly salary of a baker is €1,523. A master baker gets €3,305, almost double. That translates to $2,500 for a baker and $5,400 for a master baker.


How did this situation come about?

All this took centuries, and is due to their guild system that dates back to the mediaeval age.

A guild promotes a particular profession. The guilds were very powerful at the time, even politically, electing their people to the local government.

Their system must be followed. You learn from a meister (master craftsman), and after that you become a journeyman, journeying from town to town and learning from other meisters before you can become a craftsman and meister yourself.

But it's not something that can be easily replicated here, because Singapore does not have the long tradition.


What can Singapore do instead?

Singapore's way can be the tripartite way. We can have our own system of getting employers involved. Traditionally, we've depended a lot on the Government for support, but employers can play a role, too.

Deputy Prime Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam is currently chairing a committee, with representatives from the Government, employers and unions, to get everybody on the same page in helping non-degree holders match their skills with the right jobs and move up in their careers.


Could Singapore emulate the apprenticeship system of these countries to train skilled workers?

Although we don't have the apprenticeship tradition of Germany and Switzerland, I must emphasise that the ITE and polys have a very good system of technical and vocational education in place. So we are starting from a position of strength and now trying to tweak to further improve our system.

For instance, this Delicatessen (where the Supper Club interview is conducted) is a real shop run by ITE students who are taught how to bake pastries and run a bakery. We have an authentic learning environment that duplicates what you find in the industry, with real customers. Then there is also our place-and-train programmes I mentioned earlier.

How does the ITE help its students figure out what is truly their passion?

Sometimes, they say they are passionate about something, but actually, they are just "infatuated". The difference is that if you're passionate, you know what you're getting into. For example, an engineering student was very de-motivated and performing poorly. Our chairman, Bob Tan, asked him, if you can choose a course, what would you like to do? He said: "Actually, I'm very passionate about hairdressing."

So we moved him to hairdressing for one week. He couldn't last a week! He realised it was tough; you have to stand for very long hours and work very hard.

In Latin, the root word (passio) for passion means "to suffer". If you are passionate about something, you will work towards that goal, even to the point of making sacrifices and suffering for it.


Singapore has non-degree holders as chief executives and Members of Parliament. Do you think we will see a day when a non-degree holder is the prime minister?

I'm not too sure. I don't know how people will accept this. Generally, most would expect a PM who is very capable and of good character and high integrity. He must be somebody they can respect and is willing to follow.

I'm sure a person can rise through the ranks. But I'm not sure whether he or she can rise to the level of prime minister without a degree and be accepted by people. That depends on society.


What about a non-degree holder as CEO of the ITE?

A non-degree holder can be a lecturer in ITE and rise to be the section head or department manager. After that, it's based on performance. Of course, the CEO position is under the purview of our board of governors, the Education Ministry and the Public Service Commission. But technically, there is nothing to stop a person from rising to the top. With a very capable person, it is possible.

THE SUPPER CLUB | BRUCE POH
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Supper with Bruce Poh -RazorTV
ASPIRE committee report